Who is Quetzalcoatl? ~ The mystery hidden in legend ~

The Legend of Quetzalcoatl

Religious claim:
The LDS religion claims that around 33 AD Jesus Christ visited the Americas and taught the natives living there.  They were well acquainted with christian philosophies and doctrine.

Supporting evidence: 
The Legends of Quetzalcoatl are actually stories about Jesus Christ but the details were corrupted as the story was passed down from generation to generation.


Intro:
Quetzalcoatl is one of the most interesting of the Mayan Gods.  I would like to explore the possibility that Quetzalcoatl is not a myth only but rather a real character from history - that is Jesus Christ.  If you have ever played "The telephone game" or "Chinese whispers" as a kid, you know that the details of stories can change drastically in a short period of time.  And that is what happened from 33 AD till now.

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Legend has Quetzalcoatl and his twin brother Xolotl, descending to hell and retrieving human bones. By dripping his blood onto the bones, human resurrection began.  Men therefore, are the children of Quetzalcoatl. He is always presented as benevolent. He wears about his neck a "Wind Jewel" made from a conch and his head was adorned with a jaguar bonnet or sometimes a small cap. A sharp bone protrudes from the headgear which flows the blood that nourishes his nahualli, the Quetzal bird. 

He taught men science and the calendar and devised ceremonies. He discovered corn, and all good aspects of civilization. Quetzalcoatl is a perfect representation of saintliness. His cult transformed into a type of nobility cult and only special sacrifices selected from the Nobel classes were made to him, and then only in secret. 

Quetzalcoatl is a very ancient god known to the Mayas and ancient Teotihuacan ruins. Quetzalcoatl was said to be the son of Camaxtli and Chimalma and he was born in Michatlauhco, "Fish Deeps". 

His mother died during his birth and he was raised by his grandfathers. The multiplicity of Quetzalcoatl's roles attest to the antiquity of his cult following and his adoration.  Often depicted holding a thorn used to let blood. He created auto-sacrifice, a forerunner to human sacrifice. He is said to have let blood in honor to Camaxtli (Mixcoatl), who the Aztec believed to be Quetzalcoatl's father.

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Parallels to the LDS Religion:
1. Jesus descended to hell (spirit prison) before his resurrection.  Jesus sacrificed his blood (Garden of Gethsemane & the Cross) so that the dead could resurrect.

Doctrine and Covenants 76:73 "And also they who are the spirits of men kept in prison, whom the Son visited, and preached the gospel unto them, that they might be judged according to men in the flesh;"

2. By accepting Jesus's sacrifice (blood) we become his children.

Mosiah 5:7 "And now, because of the covenant which ye have made ye shall be called the children of Christ, his sons, and his daughters; for behold, this day he hath spiritually begotten you; for ye say that your hearts are changed through faith on his name; therefore, ye are born of him and have become his sons and his daughters."

3. Jesus is benevolent.
4. Jesus teaches about gospel ordinances (ceremonies), inspires men, and blesses them to be successful in the land (science, etc).
5. Jesus was the first to give an example of self-sacrifice (equivalent to auto-sacrifice).
6. Jesus submitted to the will of his Father in Heaven and bled from every pore for mankind.

"Lord of Healing and magical herbs, known as a symbol of thought and learning, of the arts, poetry, and all things good and beautiful. Lord of Hope and Lord of the Morning Star. He has been likened to England's King Arthur, both a real person and myth. According to the Vienna Codex a series of nine different Toltec kings succeeded the original man/god all calling themselves Quetzalcoatl. Quetzalcoatl was the god of life and gave penitence, love, and exemption from rituals of sacrifice and Autosacrifice.

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Parallels to the LDS Religion:
7. Jesus was known for healing.

Luke 9:11 "And the people, when they knew it, followed him: and he received them, and spake unto them of the kingdom of God, and healed them that had need of healing."

8. Jesus was known for hope.

Romans 15:13 "Now the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Ghost."

9. Jesus is the morning star.

Revelation 22:16  "I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star."

10. Jesus is the God of life. 

John 6:35 "And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst."

"His association with the feathered serpent is an interesting story. The quetzal bird, native to the western area of Guatemala and Mexico, was regarded as the most beautiful bird and called Quetzaltotolin, meaning "most precious". The symbol of the feathered serpent was Quetzalcoatl, meaning not just feathered serpent, but "most precious serpent". Quetzalcoatl is not the feathered serpent but the one who emerges from the serpent as Venus rises from the morning horizon (While often associated with being a feathered serpent, that is just a symbol for Quetzalcoatl)

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Parallels to the LDS Religion:
11. Middle Eastern prophets (Moses and Isaiah) and Native American prophets (Nephi, Alma, and Ammon) used the symbolism of a "fiery flying serpent" to describe Jesus Christ.

Alma 33:19  "Behold, he was spoken of by Moses; yea, and behold a type was raised up in the wilderness, that whosoever would look upon it might live. And many did look and live."

"He has been depicted occasionally on statues showing him as a great priest, the Lord of Penitence, with a painted black stripe beside the eyes and a red ring surrounding the mouth and blue areas on the forehead. 

In the Vienna Codex, Quetzalcoatl is depicted holding the heavens with his hands, symbolic of holding the rain clouds and sky in place. 

Often depicted as a white skinned god with a black beard. Recent scholarly theories suggest that the man-god may have been a wandering Viking who had lost his way."

Parallels to the LDS Religion:
12.  Jesus is the great High Priest.

Hebrews 4:14 "Seeing then that we have a great high priest, that is passed into the heavens, Jesus the Son of God, let us hold fast our profession."

13.  Jesus holds the heavens in his hands.

Moses 7:36 "Wherefore, I can stretch forth mine hands and hold all the creations which I have made; and mine eye can pierce them also"

14.  Jesus is depicted as a white man with a dark beard.

Conclusion:

With all of the similarities between Jesus Christ and Quetzalcoatl, it can easily cause one to infer that perhaps the Book of Mormon is true.  Perhaps Jesus Christ did visit the Americas.  Perhaps the gospel of Jesus Christ was taught to the Native Americans.  Perhaps at one time the Native Americans did have access to Biblical knowledge.  But unfortunately, due to poor record keeping, the story of Jesus became lost in the mythological figure now known as Quetzalcoatl.

http://www.crystalinks.com/index.html 

MAYAN CREATION MYTHS - The bridge between Science and Religion

Mayan Creation Myth intro -

The Maya of Mesoamerica creation story is recounted in the book Popol Vuh.
In Maya mythology, Tepeu and Gucumatz (also known as Kukulkan, and as the Aztec's Quetzalcoatl) are referred to as the Creators, the Makers, and the Forefathers. They were two of the first beings to exist and were said to be as wise as sages. Huracan, or the Heart of Heaven, also existed and is given less personification. He acts more like a storm, of which he is the god. Tepeu and Gucumatz hold a conference and decide that, in order to preserve their legacy, they must create a race of beings who can worship them. Huracan does the actual creating while Tepeu and Gucumatz guide the process. Earth is created, but the gods make several false starts in setting humanity upon the earth. Animals were created first; however, with all of their howling and squawking they did not worship their creators and were thus banished forever to the forest. Man is created first of mud, but they just crumbled and dissolved away. Other gods are summoned and man is next created of wood but has no soul, and they soon forgot their makers, so the gods turned all of their possessions against them and brought a black resinous rain down on their heads.  This flood differs from others in that it is not a punishment, but rather a remedy for a faulty creation.  Finally man is formed of masa or corn dough by even more gods and their work is complete. As such, the Maya believed that maize was not just the cornerstone of their diet, but they were also made of the same stuff.  

MYTH 1

In the beginning there is only sky and sea, personified as a trinity of gods called Heart-of-Sky. They decide that they want someone to praise them. They begin by saying "Earth", which appears on demand from the sea. This is followed by mountains and trees, and Heart-of-Sky establish that "our work is going well". Next for creation are the creatures of the forest: birds, deer, jaguars and snakes. They are told to multiply and scatter, and then to speak and "pray to us". But the animals just squawk and howl. They are consequently humbled and will become servants to whoever will worship Heart-of-Sky. So Heart-of-Sky try to make some more respectful creatures from mud. But the results are not great, and they allow the new race to be washed away.
They call upon their grandparents, who suggest wood as an appropriate medium. But the wooden people are just mindless robots, so Heart-of Sky set about the destruction of this new race by means of a rain-storm. This causes the animals to turn against the wooden people; even their pots and querns rebel, and crush the peoples' faces. The wooden people escape to the forests and are turned into monkeys. Heart-of-Sky then make yet another attempt at creating a suitably respectful race, and finally succeed by fashioning humans out of maize-corn dough.

MYTH 2

The Feathered Serpent first created man from mud. These creatures were a failure; they couldn't see, they dissolved when it rained, etc. So the god broke them up and tried again. "This time he made men out of wood. They were better than the mud-men. They could walk and talk; they had many children, built many houses, but they had no minds nor souls nor hearts. The Feathered Serpent - Quetzalcoatl was disappointed with what he had created, so he sent a great flood to cleanse the earth of his mistake.

MYTH 3

In the beginning was only Tepeu and Gucumatz (another name for Quetzalcoatl). These two sat together and thought, and whatever they thought came into being. They thought earth, and there it was. They thought mountains, and so there were. They thought trees, and sky, and animals etc, and each came into being. But none of these things could praise them, so they formed more advanced beings of clay. But these beings fell apart when they got wet, so they made beings out of wood, but they proved unsatisfactory and caused trouble on the earth. The gods sent a great flood to wipe out these beings, so that they could start over. With the help of Mountain Lion, Coyote, Parrot, and Crow they fashioned four new beings. These four beings performed well and are the ancestors of the Quich. 

LDS Religious claim:

LDS members (Mormons) claim that many modern Native Americans are descendants of Israelites who traveled from Israel to America on boats around 600 BCE.  

Supporting evidence:

Mayan creation myths have many similarities with the Biblical creation story leading one to infer that their ancestors may have had knowledge of the Biblical creation story as contained on Israelite records.

Parallels to the LDS religion:

1) Concept of 3 independent Gods, who function extremely similar to the LDS concept of the Godhead.

2) The Gods have power to create.

3) Holy Ghost - "He acts more like a storm"

4) We are God's children - "in order to preserve their legacy, they must create a race of beings who can worship them"

5) The order of creation in Genesis - "Animals were created first"

6) Noah's flood - "The gods sent a great flood to wipe out these beings, so that they could start over." 

7) The Book of Revelation's reverence to 4 beasts in heaven - "With the help of Mountain Lion, Coyote, Parrot, and Crow they fashioned four new beings. 

Scientists claim: 

Mankind was derived through a serious of stages in the process of evolution.

LDS Religious claim: 

Mankind was derived through the creative power of God.

The Bridge between Science and Religion -

"The Creation" and "The theory of evolution" sometimes butt heads but the Mayan creation story seems to bridge the gap.   The order of the creation and the order of evolution are relatively similar.  A loose interpretation of Genesis can cause a believer to suppose that perhaps God used evolution as a tool for the creation of life on earth over different undefined periods of time called "days".  But taking the Bible too literally can cause one to believe that man was only created once.  The Mayan creation story claims that man was created at least 3 times.  Scientists have discovered the bones of many varieties of man on the path of evolution to our modern day "homo sapien".  Some of these bones are carbon-dated to periods long before the common Biblical assumption that mankind began in 4000 BCE.  By understanding that God may have created different versions of man at varying stages in the creation, one can easily reconcile science with religion.

http://www.crystalinks.com/mayancreation.html

White Horse Prophesy and the next American Revolution

This Thanksgiving my family gathered together to read from the Holy Scriptures.  Our reading slowly evolved into a discussion about faith.  The conversation further evolved into a discussion about prophesy.  I made mention to my family about one of the most important prophesies ever given - The White Horse Prophesy.  The White Horse Prophesy is jam packed with pertinent facts and prophesies given by Joseph Smith in the year 1844.  Every American should read these words.  They describe the events that will take place to lead us to the next American Revolution upon the North American continent.  We must be very careful how we proceed forward into the future.  There are still things that are under our power to change.  I believe that if we heed these warnings we can avoid some of the pains and trials that will come if we are not careful.  Please share this prophesy with your friends.  It may become the difference between life and death someday.



More information regarding the prophesy -
http://www.addictinginfo.org/2012/09/21/white-horse-prophecy/
http://www.latterdayconservative.com/faq/the-constitution-hanging-by-a-thread-and-the-white-horse-prophecy/

Additionally, if you would rather listen to the prophesy I would recommend you click the following link -  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pxo8V_6h-Mc
(The prophesy starts after 2 minutes and 30 seconds of his introduction).

1.  On or about the sixth day of May, 1843, a grand review of the Nauvoo Legion was held in Nauvoo. The Prophet Joseph complimented them for their good discipline and evolutions performed. The weather being hot, he called for a glass of water. 

2.  With the glass of water in his hand, he said, “I will drink you a toast to the overthrow of the mobocrats,” which he did in language as follows: “Here’s wishing they were in the middle of the sea, in a stone canoe with iron paddles, and a shark swallow the canoe, and the Devil swallow the shark, and him locked up in the northwest corner of Hell, the key lost and a blind man hunting for it.” 

3.  The next morning a man who had heard the Prophet give the toast here referred to, visited the mansion of the Prophet, and so abused him with bad language, that he was ordered out by the Prophet.

4.  It was while the two were out, that my attention was attracted to them, and hearing the man speaking in a loud tone of voice, I went toward them, the man finally leaving. There were then present the Prophet Joseph Smith, Theodore Turley and myself. The Prophet began talking to us of the mobbings and drivings, the persecutions we as a people had endured. “But,” said he, “We will have worse things to see; our persecutors will have all the mobbings they want. Don’t wish them any harm, for when you see their sufferings, you will shed tears for them.” 

5.  While this conversation was going on, we stood by his south wicker gate in a triangle. Turning to me, he said, “I want to tell you something. In the future I will speak in parables like unto John, the Revelator.” (Little did I then think the prophet of the Lord would so soon be slain in cold blood.) 

6.  Continuing, he said, “You will go to the Rocky Mountains, and you will see a great and mighty people established, which I will call the White Horse of Peace and Safety.” 

7.  When the Prophet said, “You will see,” I asked him where he would be at that time.” He answered, “I shall never go there.” 

8.  ”Your enemies will continue to follow you with persecutions, and they will make obnoxious laws against you in Congress to destroy the White Horse. 

9.  ”But you will have a friend or two to defend you and throw out the worst part of the laws, so they will not hurt much. 

10.  ”You must continue to petition Congress all the time, but they will treat you like strangers and aliens, and they will not give you your rights but will govern you with strangers and commissioners; 

11.  ”You will see the Constitution of the United States almost destroyed; it will hang by a thread, and that thread as fine as the finest silk fiber.” 

12.  At this point the Prophet’s countenance became sad; because as he said, “I love the Constitution; 

13.  ”It was made by the inspiration of God, 

14.  ”And it will be preserved and saved by the efforts of the White Horse and the Red Horse who will combine in its defense. 

15.  ”The White Horse will raise an ensign on the tops of the mountains of peace and safety where all nations may flee unto for safety.  

16.  ”The White Horse will find the mountains full of minerals, and they will become very rich. You will find silver piled up in the streets. (At this time, it must be remembered that it was not known that the precious metals existed either in the Rocky Mountains or in California.) You will see gold shoveled up like sand. 

17.  ”Gold will be but of little value even in a mercantile capacity, for the people of the world will have something else to do in seeking for salvation. 

18.  ”The time will come when the banks in every nation will fail, and only two places will be safe where the people can deposit their gold and treasure. These places will be with the White Horse and England’s vaults. 

19.  ”A terrible revolution will take place in the land of America, such as has never been seen before, for the land will be literally left without a supreme government, and every species of wickedness will run rampant; it will be so terrible that father will be against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother. The most terrible scenes of murder and bloodshed and rapine that have ever been looked upon will take place. 

20.  ”Peace will be taken from the earth, and there will be no peace only in the Rocky Mountains. This will cause hundreds and thousands of the honest in heart of the world to gather there, not because they would be saints, but for safety, and because they would not take up the sword against their neighbors. 

21.  ”You will be so numerous that you will be in danger of famine, but not for the want of seed time and harvest, but that so many will have to be fed. Many will come with bundles under their arms to escape the calamities, and there will be no escape, only by fleeing to Zion. 

22.  ”Those that come to you will try and keep the laws and be one with you, for they will see your unity and the greatness of your organizations. 

23.  ”The Turkish Empire or the Crescent will be one of the first powers that will be disrupted as a power, for freedom must be given for the Gospel to be preached in the Holy Land. 

24.  ”The Lord took of the best blood of the nations, and planted them on       the small island now called England, or Great Britain, and gave them great powers in the nations for a thousand years, and this power will       continue with them, that they may keep the balance of power, that they may keep Russia from usurping power over all the world. 

25.  ”England and France are now bitter enemies, but they will be allied together in order to keep Russia from conquering the world. 

26.  ”The two Popes, Greek and Catholic, will come together and be united. The Protestant religions do not know how much they are indebted to Henry VIII for throwing off the Pope’s bull and establishing the Protestant faith. He was the only monarch that could do so at the time, and he did it because the nation was at his back to sustain him. 

27.  One of the peculiar features in England is the established red coat, a uniform making so remarkable a mark to shoot at, and yet they have conquered wherever they have gone. The reason for this will be known by them some day. The Lion and the Unicorn of England is the ensign of Israel. The wisdom and statesmanship of England comes from there being so much of the blood of Israel in the nation. 

28.  ”While the terrible revolution of which mention has been made is going on, England will be neutral until it becomes so inhuman that she will interfere to stop the shedding of blood. England and France will then unite together and come with intention to make peace, not to subdue the nation. They will find the nation so broken up and so many claiming government, still there will be no responsible government. Then it will appear to the other nations or powers as though England had taken possession of the country.  

29.  ”The Black Horse will flee to the invaders and will join with them, for they will have fear of becoming slaves again, knowing England does not believe in slavery, fleeing to them, they believed would make them safe. Armed with British bayonets, the doings of the Black Horse will be terrible.” 

30.  So the Prophet said he could not bear to look longer upon the scene as shown him in vision, that he asked the Lord to close the scene. 

31.  Continuing, he said: “During this time, the great White Horse will have gathered strength, sending out elders to get the honest in heart of the United States to stand by the Constitution of the United States, as it was given by inspiration of the Lord. 

32.  ”In these days, God will set up a kingdom, never to be thrown down, for other kingdoms to come unto, and these kingdoms that will not let the Gospel be preached will be humbled until they will. 

33.  ”England, Germany, Norway, Denmark, Sweden, Switzerland, Holland, and Belgium have a considerable amount of the blood of Israel among their people, which must be gathered. These nations will submit to the Kingdom of God. England will do it as a whole, in comparison as she threw off the Catholic power. The nobility know the Gospel is true, but it has not enough pomp and grandeur and influence for them to embrace it. They are proud and will not acknowledge the Kingdom of God, or come unto it until they see the power which it will have. 

34.  ”Peace and safety in the Rocky Mountains will be protected by a cord and band of the White Horse and the Red Horse. 

35.  ”The coming of the Ten Tribes of Israel, the coming of the Messiah among His people, will be so natural that only those who see Him will know He has come, but He will come and give His law unto Zion and minister unto His people. This will not be His coming in the clouds of heaven to take vengeance on the world. 

36.  The Temple in Jackson County will be built in this generation. The saints will think there will not be time to build it, but with all the great help you will receive, you can put up a great temple quickly. You will have gold, silver, and precious stones, for these things only will be used for beautifying the temple, all the skilled mechanics you want, and the Ten Tribes of Israel to help you build it. When you see this land bounded with iron, you may look toward Jackson County.” 

37.  At this point he made a pause, and looking up as though the vision was still in view, he said, “There is a land beyond the Rocky Mountains that will be invaded by the heathen Chinese, unless great care and protection are given. Speaking of the heathen, where there is no law there is no condemnation; this will apply to them. 

38.  ”Power will be given the White Horse to rebuke nations afar off and they will obey, not that they will be one with the White Horse, but when the law goes forth, they will obey, for the law will go forth from Zion. 

39.  ”The last great struggle Zion will have to contend with will be when the whole of America will be made the Zion of God. 

40.  ”Those opposing will be called Gog and Magog The nations of the world       led by the Russian Czar and their power, will be great, but all   opposition will be overcome, and this land will be then the Zion of our  God.”

Please share.  This prophesy is too important to ignore.

Why would BELIEF be a virtue?

<Discussion continued from "The Origin of God">

Susie -  Question though, why would BELIEF be a virtue? Why would all powerful beings spend their time devising ways to trick people into unbelief? Why, really why, does God care if we suppose he exists? Is he really so insecure of his own reality that he feels it's awfully important for his children to believe he exists? I can understand a superior being concealing his identity, and not blatantly walking around the planet. If I was running an experiment on a planet, I would do the same thing. However, it makes no sense why a superior being would remain almost completely hidden, and still require his subjects insist that he really is there. It makes no sense that he would actually judge us on how certain we are of his reality. If knowing he existed was so vitally important to him, how about he just... I dunno... Makes himself known. It's because either no such person exists, or he does exist, and he absolutely isn't concerned with our "level of belief." Belief is not a virtue. It does not make you a more moral person, it does not make you a kinder person. In fact, it's so frequently opposite. Some of the most difficult people in the world are those that believe the strongest. As I have let go of my need to "believe" in stories, I have become a better person, a person Christ if he's real would get along much better with, a person who, if a superior being is watching, would be much prouder of. There is no monstrous,  evil creature taking ideas of how he can lead me astray to God, and God approves, because he likes tricking people, because he's testing how strong I can "believe" despite reason. I cannot makes myself any clearer, there is no one leading me astray. This journey is my own, it came from my heart, it came from my head. The beauty and truth I have discovered on this journey belongs to me and no one else. 

Are you familiar with the idea of memetics? I imagine you are. The reason the concept of "belief" has persisted as a standard for moral character, when belief does not inherently even GIVE you more moral character, is because the idea itself is self-preservatory. So many people believe that believing is good, because the very idea requires that you believe it. It's the evolution of memes, ideas, the same way organisms evolve. The same way viruses evolved because they happened to preserve and propagate themselves, so that there were more of them. And the better they survived and propagated, the more there were. Certain ideas in the mind behave the same way. If you think about it, really think about, "belief" as a virtue is almost completely arbitrary. Kindness. Loyalty. Confidence. These ideas clearly translate into wellbeing and survival for an organism, but belief? It persists because it happens to be a meme that viciously defends itself, and spreads from parent to child, from preacher to investigator. It's as arbitrary as if it just so happened that... Say... Crankiness was essential to your spiritual health. It's very important that you hold onto your crankiness! Being cranky shows how much you deserve to go to heaven. Those who aren't cranky, don't understand how powerful it feels to snap at people. God has asked us to be cranky! Therefore, display your crankiness often, to show your devotion to God.

Seth - First off, I want to thank you for being who you are.  As I reread through our previous posts, I was again impressed with your pure desires.  I feel sorry that for some reason the Mormon church was holding you back.  I'm glad that you have been able to make changes in your life for the better.  I want you to know that I respect your journey. 

I hope that after our discussions we can agree on a few things,

1 ) It is possible that a framework exists for the natural "evolution" of a God, making God's existence logical. 

2 )  Because of the many people who have experiences with prayer, the probability that a God exists is very high.

3 )  Belief is a virtue

4 )  It is logical to have faith in God and therefore follow a religious practice.

5 )  It is possible to have both belief and charity without sacrificing one for the other.

Your first question, "Why would belief be a virtue?"

I completely agree with you when you talk about memetics.  I was actually thinking about that before you posted about it.  I think that you bring up a great argument here.  It makes logical sense that cultures with no belief, had no belief passed on.  But eventually a belief might be generated in a society, and if it has enough intrinsic qualities to motivate others to belief it and spread it, it can be passed on.  You could say that different beliefs are just a bunch of memetics passed on to their kids and there is no intrinsic value in belief and you would have an argument there. 

Now, despite the strength of your argument, I would like to build the case for "belief" being a virtue.

Per wikipedia, "A virtue is a positive trait or quality deemed to be morally good and thus is valued as a foundation of principle and good moral being. Personal virtues are characteristics valued as promoting collective and individual greatness."

I have three points to make in this case.

1 ) If disbelief is a vice, then belief is a virtue

2 ) Belief benefits humanity

3 ) It is logical that God would desire us to believe if it has a spiritual function.

1 ) If disbelief is a vice, then belief is a virtue.

When I was young, I listened to my father tell me stories about how God had influenced his life, answered his prayers, and given him revelation by the spirit.  When I was young, I trusted my father to be an honest person. Because of this trust, I believed in the stories and therefore in God.  If my father was lying about all of those experiences, then I could have just sunk many of my following generations into a memetic trap with me retelling my father's stories at reunions by the campfire.

But the thing is, everything my father said was consistent with reality.  I eventually had my own spiritual experiences, which reconfirmed to me the reality of my father's experiences.  Now when I tell my grandchildren my personal experiences, they will be affected by these memes.

But the reality is, the experiences are all consistent with the gospel.  They all make sense within a religious framework.  They are all 100% true. 

I grew up in a household that was honest and pure.  My family members fully trusted each other.  I considered my younger brother to be one of the most virtuous people on the planet. When my younger brother tells me that he received an answer to his prayer, I do not doubt it.  I believe him.  I trust his character and integrity.  And everything he says is consistent with a religious framework that is logical.

As I grew into my teen years I began discussing some of the spiritual experiences with a variety of people.  I was shocked that people were so quick to disbelieve.  I was always the gullible one in school.  I never expected those around me to purposefully deceive in order to crack a joke.  I almost never told lies, and therefore had a worldview that imagined that people were like me and could be honest and virtuous all of the time.  I didn't realize that that was not the norm.

I quickly found that in my discussions with people about spiritual experiences that those who did not believe in God were also the people who did not trust others easily.  In fact, they didn't even trust members of their own family.  These people lived with a world view that "Hey, I have a habit of lying, therefore people around me are probably just like me, liars.'

I found that I had a negative feeling around those types of people.  There isn't really anything you can do for them.  No matter what you tell them, they won't believe you.  They have drunk the poison of their own lies and they are in a state of constant distrust of others.  It was as if they had given up on the idea that trustworthy people could exist in the world and therefore had no expectation for themselves to meet any standard of goodness.  I did not view their disbelief as a virtue, but rather as a vice.  Rather that being "liberated" from the captivity of "belief" they were trapped in the illusion of a world that is unstable, unreliable, unhappy, and lonely. 

Belief, on the other hand, should be liberating.  Belief means that you trust yourself and conversely trust others.  Belief means you can live without fear.  Belief means that you don't give up on what is good in the world.  Belief, as a function of trust, is a virtue.  It is a positive trait.  It promotes and inspires individual goodness and collective goodness.  When you believe in others, it makes them want to live up to that trust.  When you give out the "belief" vibe, others can sense it.  Others can tell when you give off that vibe because they instantly feel that you are trustworthy long before they could know you well enough to determine that factually.  It promotes unity, love, and mutual trust.  The lack thereof implies distrust, which works against love.

So generally, belief is a virtue.  When you believe in yourself, you will begin to believe in others.  And when you believe in others it opens you up to believing in God. 

2 ) Belief benefits humanity. 

Regardless of whether belief comes by the natural evolution of memes or by God's influence, religion has useful functions in a society.

A.  Belief supports integrity in humanity.

            I think that it is logical to say that belief in a higher power reinforces the morals of a society at any point in time.  Each culture develops moral codes for acceptable behavior in society.  Moral codes are often enforced by the people within that culture through a variety of rewards and punishments, whether social or physical.  Whenever an individual desires go against the moral code, the human must decide whether or not to put the moral code before or after his base desires.  The likelihood of the punishment can obviously influence the individual to choose to follow the moral code and therefore benefit society.  But when the likelihood of punishment is small, the human may be more likely to violate the moral code.  But belief in a higher power helps influence a human to always want to follow the moral code.   Belief reinforces integrity in all situations regardless of whether or not you will get caught.   Even if it isn't belief in a higher power, belief in goodness, belief in virtue, or belief in anything positive is more likely to keep a person following a moral code.  And that is good for humanity.  If a person doesn't believe in a higher power then they should at least believe in right and wrong.  But those who believe in nothing are the most likely to violate moral codes and damage society. 

B.  Belief supports unity of people in humanity.

            Despite common accusations against religion, religion has been one of the greatest unifiers within humanity.  The accusation that religion causes wars is most likely an issue of correlation rather than causation.  Throughout history the people who started wars wanted to start wars anyway.  Religion just helped them pick their targets better.  And the people without religion were equally involved in wars. 

Judaism helped unify the Jews as they traveled around the world in their diasporas.  Whenever the Jews became slaves, they focused on religion and were eventually able to unify themselves, reclaim freedom, regroup, and build a great civilization.

Christianity helps unify people into churches.  These churches provide support to people both locally and globally.  They benefit humanity.

Buddhism is a very flexible religion but still helps people develop unity.  People gather to learn Buddhism and meditate in Asia. They are a very peaceful people because of it.   When a typhoon struck Taiwan in 2009, I witnessed an impressive array of united Buddhists organizing themselves and gathering to the disaster zones to help clean up.

Islam, back in the day, was very successful at creating a peaceful empire where ideas could be exchanged and mathematics could be developed. 

They all have their own flavor of unity, but they do benefit humanity.

And often it is the disbelievers who declare war on the believers than one religion declaring war on another.  Hitler didn't kill Jews because his religion had a conflict with theirs.  Chinese Communists didn't persecute and massacre Fa Lun Gong members because their religions conflicted.  If Hitler or the Chinese Communists had more belief in religion maybe things would have been different.

3 ) It is logical that God would desire us to believe if it has a spiritual function.

Belief has multiple spiritual functions.

A. Connects us to what we believe in

B. Helps us develop greater moral strength

C. Feeds faith which feeds repentance

A. Connects us to what we believe in

A bittersweet aspect of belief is that it connects us to what we believe in. 

God wants us to believe in him because it spiritually connects us. 

We can receive great spiritual strength by being connected to him.

Likewise, fear of evil spirits is equivalent to believing in their malevolent power and also connects us to them.

The more we believe in evil spirits the more power they have over us.

I have very personal experience with both sides. 

I have learned that a confident belief is the healthy medium.

The confident belief is that you trust that the positive is stronger than the negative, and therefore, despite your belief in the evil spirits, you do not fear them.  I believe that this type of confident belief disarms them.

B. Helps us develop greater moral strength

It follows logically to say that

if God has all power, and

if God has all knowledge, and

if God is our father, and

if God loves us,

then

his teachings are for our good

his will is for our good

what he does is for our good

what he lets happen if for our good

Under this framework, we can understand that if this God teaches us to believe in him, then it must be for our own good.  If this God makes it hard for us to sense his existence, then that must also be for our good.

You bring up a good question - Is it logical for God to both make it hard for us to sense his existence and want us to believe in him?

This is a hard question because I can't say anything for certain. 

We don't necessarily know why God does what he does.

But to me, it is logical to think that God designed this life to be a test or a place to develop ourselves.

It is logical to me to say that we need a lot of experience in order to fully develop ourselves.

It is also logical that God would want us to mature independent of him.

For example, a father wouldn't want a son to only do chores when he is in town, but also when he is on business trips.  A father must teach his son to be accountable at all times, not only when he is around to enforce things.

Because of this, I think it is logical to say that acting morally because of a belief helps us develop a stronger moral strength than acting morally because of knowledge.  Basically, in the face of uncertainty, we still choose the right path. 

Therefore I think that it is perfectly reasonable and logical to believe that God make it hard for us to sense his existence and still want us to believe in him.

C. Feeds faith which feeds repentance

Belief is extremely important because it feeds faith and faith feeds the rest of your spirituality.

In church, faith is the first principle of the gospel.

It is the center of everything.

The greatest commandment is to love God with all your heart, but you can't do that if you don't believe in him.

If you were to compare different religious principles to different parts of the body, I would say that faith is the heart because it feeds all the other parts of the body/religion.  It gives purpose and meaning to all of the moral principles you believe. 

Without faith, your moral compass is limited to "how do things affect people/environment around me?".

But with faith, your moral compass extends to consider "how do things affect God/spirituality/people/environment." 

Because your moral compass is wider now, you begin to feel guilt for things that affect God/spirituality negatively and try to change those via repentance.  These positive behavior changes would never happen without belief.  The side effect that you might have witnessed is that sometimes people can put too much of their moral compass priority on "God/spirituality" and to little of their focus on "people / environment".  You might have realized in your journey that by eliminating "God/spirituality" you were able to focus more of your energy on "people / environment" and were able to be more charitable.  But ultimately, doing so reduces the scope of your moral compass.

Belief vs Charity

Now I would like to discuss with you the trade off between belief and charity.

You mentioned that as a Mormon you felt like you had to pick one or the other.

One analogy I learned from the Book of Mormon on my mission was that the Nephite civilization could become a symbol for my own personal spirituality.  An example was in the book of Helaman when Moroni fortifies all of the small cities.  I began to form an analogy that each city could represent a spiritual principle, like charity, virtue, kindness, diligence, obedience, knowledge, patience, honesty, etc.  But Moroni's only mistake was that in his fortifications, he left the capital of the Nephite civilization in a weaker state. 

The Lamanites (symbolizing Satan's temptations) would attack the small cities first and slowly inch their way towards the capital, symbolizing Satan's efforts to start with small temptations and gradually get to the core of our belief and destroy it.

The Lamanites attacked the small cities but were forced to retreat because they were well fortified.  Perhaps a person is well developed in patience and honesty.  When Satan tempts them in those areas he makes little progress.  But what happened was one of the Nephites left and joined the Lamanites.  Symbolically, part of an individual began to sympathize with Satan's position.  Once that Nephite had switched teams, the Lamanites knew exactly which city was weakest.  It was their capital.  The Lamanites marched straight through their civilization and took over the capital in one sweeping blow. 

Luckily, all of the small cities were able to regroup and recover the capital.  So investing in "christlike" attributes pays off because they can be mobilized to help you in other areas of your life.  But the key point here is the importance of faith.  Sometimes there is a trade off between fortifying faith and fortifying Christ-like attributes.  Maybe this is part of what you were going through as a Mormon.  You felt that too much faith left too little room for charity.  But you need to understand that they work together.  Don't believe that they are mutually exclusive.  You can build up both of them at the same time.